First NYC Club Visits

[shipitfish]

I have officially entered the NYC poker economy. On Friday afternoon, I visited the Upper West Side Club. (I will use this pseudonym indefinitely for this club; those of you that have visited it surely know which on I am talking about. It's been reviewed elsewhere on the web, too.) This club runs primarily NL games, although a $4/$8 limit HE game has been running regularly on weekday afternoons and evenings, so the brush/cashier told me.

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Legality?

These NYC clubs are "members only". I suppose I could have walked in and just gotten a seat, but I went ahead and filled out a membership application form. This puts my name and contact information on file, but I'd hate to get banned for the best club town for not following their membership rules.

I did some searching on the Internet for the legalities, and found this useful information on Google. The key quote is this:

For poker to be legally played it would have to be shown that poker is a game of skill and not a game of chance and therefore not gambling. As far as I can ascertain, the legality of poker in New York has not been tested in the courts.

This seems to fit with the research I did: the cops have busted a few places, but the legality remains nebulous. There are stories online about clubs being "busted", and then only being ticketed for alcohol serving violations. Frankly, I feel that I am safer from police/mob action at these clubs than I was at Greg's game in the later days. I'm just not going to worry about it. If I'm at a club that gets busted, I'll simply show my identification, ask what I am charged with, and see what happens. I just don't think it will happen. Also, since the games run all day and all night every day, I'll tend to play in the afternoons, not nights.

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The Layout

The club is in a cheap office space building, and is made up of three rooms. They have cameras mounted down at the front, in all three rooms, and right outside the main door before the foyer. You ring a bell to be buzzed in before entering the foyer.

There is space in the middle room for relaxing, with a couch, a large screen television with (legal) cable, and a few chess and backgammon setups. There is usually someone sitting on the couch looking longingly at the chess board; obviously hoping that someone will sit down for a game that they can hustle.

The back room to the left is used primarily for tournaments, and, when they aren't running, it hosts what the locals call the "old people's game", a mixed $5/$10 limit of high-low poker (Stud, Omaha, Crazy Pineapple). That back room hosts about four or five tables.

The main room, to the right of the lounge area, has about six tables, mostly of $1/$2 blind, $250 maximum buy-in NL HE. They also run a $5/$5 blind game, usually just one table, it seems. Then, there's that $4/$8 limit HE game on weekdays in the same room.

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Buying In and Out

They have a cash register and a cashier, who doubles as the brush. They've got a cute way to record their cash transactions. Sitting on the counter is a white-board. All cash/chip exchanges happen on the white-board, and their is a camera constantly held on that spot. They record every transaction that takes place. If they give a marker, which they seem to do for their regulars, they write out the amount, put the rack of chips, and have the person sign the white-board, which shows up surprisingly well on the screen. (I watch a guy receive a marker just as I was arriving.)

I should note that the $100 bills seem to disappear. I didn't notice a drop box safe, but there must be one. I am going to look more closely the next time I go, as I was amazed at how little cash seemed to be in the register both times I cashed out, although when I asked for "as many hundreds as possible", I noticed that the only two he had were the ones I'd bought in with myself. The guy behind me asked for "no large bills"; it seems these players are $20-focused. I wonder if their is a safety reason why; perhaps worry about counterfeit bills; maybe I should stop asking for the larger bills despite my preference for them.

The chips are not particularly secure. They are a standard dice-edge chip, with a hot stamp of the name of the club. I would guess they would be hard to forge because of their age; you'd definitely stand out if you didn't wear down counterfeits before cashing them out. I did notice they carefully examined the $25 chips I cashed out, and I didn't see any $100 chips in play, even in the $5/$5 game, but I might have just missed them as I didn't approach that game too closely.

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The Friday Limit Game

On Friday afternoon, I was glad to see that the $4/$8 limit game was running. I did not want to play big on my first trip; I wanted to get used to my surroundings and see how the club operated. I was ready for the fact that the games were not raked; I'd read that the legalities are more solid for hosts if they don't benefit specifically from the size of the pots. Instead, each person is charged $4 per 30 minute time charge in every game. This is rather hefty in a $4/$8 game (one BB/hour, after all), but the looseness of the game makes up for it.

That said, I was a $100 loser for the 1.25 hour session I played. In fact, I didn't win a pot. However, I had the opportunity to draw at a number of inside straights with 1-to-11 actual odds and who-knows-what implied odds. There were (on rough average) about 5 people seeing each flop, and usually the river was played three handed. About half the table would call down with any pair from the flop, and of course any draw. I unfortunately missed all of mine, and I'd flopped quite a few, and that accounts for the losses.

Toward the end of this "getting to know the club" session, Josh from Greg's game showed up. I had expected I might see him as he mentioned this club at Greg's. He'd come to play the tournament, and joined the $4/$8 game while waiting. We chatted a bit; I heard some news from Greg's game, and left to my real world responsibilities.

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A Return Trip On Saturday

I had thought I'd return on Sunday, but remembered that the limit game isn't advertised to run on Sundays, so I decided to escape my landlord's stair-painting odors and see what a Saturday afternoon was like. I found no limit game running. (I found out then that it rarely goes on Saturday until the late evening, if at all.) I thought about playing in the "old people's game", but instead put my name on the $4/$8 interest list and took a seat with $200 in the $1/$2 game.

I sat down thinking: "I don't know what NL HE is like here in NYC, so I'll keep it low key until I see what the game is like". No such luck when I get AKo after seven people limp to my BB. I raised the pot and got one caller from UTG+1. He folded when I bet three-quarters of the pot on a raggedy flop. Nice start; it helped that my hands were shaking not because of "big hand" (I'd flopped nothing, after all), but because of nervousness of a new game.

I discovered it was quite a loose game. Most of the players liked to take lots of flops, sometimes multi-way for big raises ($15-20). I got a little worried, of course, because I was catching good cards and could easily get cracked. Before the blind came to me again, I got AA UTG, and made it $10 to go. I got called by 7(!) people, and was getting a bit depressed when to my joy the SB reraised a feeler amount of $20. I decided not too fool around with this huge field and moved in after studying my opponent for about 15 seconds. I stared at him the whole time as he thought, hoping I was sending the right reverse tells by leaning in and looking aggressive. He reluctantly called. Expecting to see AK, I wasn't as happy when I saw KQo and two live cards. The flop and turn were scary, as he had by then a pair of kings and a gutshot straight draw. I joked that the $200 was all I'd brought so I was going home if he got there, but he didn't.

I then loosened up a bit -- somewhat of a mistake -- as I stupidly played 69s from early position, drew with odds to a flush in a field of four, and got raised off the best hand when the 37 (!) flush went all-in over my value bet. I suspected he was on the flush draw with me, and assumed he'd made a better flush. Just a lesson in playing trash out of position.

I recovered my losses when I again got aces, this time taking a flow with Mr. 3-7-Flush. He moved in on me for his last $80 with bottom pair and a flush draw (a 74s this time), and I was fortunate enough to hold the ace of his suit, but didn't need it when his flush didn't come.

I started making big raises with all my big starting hands to avoid too many callers. It seemed that everyone would call $10 based on their own holding, no matter who raised; if they wanted to play the hand for $2, they wanted to for $10. I started going to $15, which confused some of the better players, but I did discourage them from cracking with trash. I suppose I should have been less risk-averse, but after almost taking a flop with 7 people when holding aces, I preferred to clear the field, even it meant a limp-steal with my QQ.

The only mistake I made thereafter was not betting the flop with AQs when a loose-but-clueful and deep-money player called my $50 cold, and a third player was all-in for $20. The flop was middle cards, with some straight draws possible, and we checked through. I stupidly bet $50 on the turn, which made it clear I had just big cards. It was either bet the flop or check-fold, I think. I don't think a $50 bet was a waste on the flop, but it was a waste on the turn.

I definitely like this $1/$2 game, but I can see how its variance could be pretty high. I got lucky; winning when I was all-in as a favorite a few times, but it could have easily gone the other way. I may stick to limit, even though the $4 time charge seems much less when you've built a $700 stack in a few hours.

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Try The Other Clubs?

I am now unsure about when I will try the other clubs. Josh tells me that the others he's tried are seedy, and I was glad that the feel of this game was good. The dealers were friendly, and skillful, although they don't count down the stub which does bug me a bit. The floor staff were nice, and the waitresses are kind. (I was amused by a kind waitress, in fact. I didn't know drinks were fully gratis, so I asked her: "Is there a charge for the pepsi?" and she blushed as she said: "Well, some people tip." I liked that she was still unjaded enough to blush at admitting she worked for gratuity.) I hear this club is only a year old, but I hope it's around for a while. Of course, the train ride to Foxwoods is short, too...

Comments

[dankhank.livejournal.com]

new york city has its first victim of the bradley stare down.

[(Anonymous)]

But only for 15 seconds.
That's a quick Bradley glance in my books

;-)

Thanks for the report Bradley, it was an interesting read!