SIF@HOME 0x0: In Mixed Games, We Vary Our Play

[shipitfish]

Date:

Saturday 7 October 2006

In attendence:

Dawn of ihadouts (Dawn's post about this game), highonpoker (HighOnPoker's post about this game), mary423, princessmaigrey (aka maigrey), SoxLover, SethTheOtherLawyer, tmttr.

Mix:

NL HE, TD2-7, PLO, Stud/8, PL 5-Card-Draw, and O/8

My report is below:

I believe the first instance of SIF@HOME was successful, especially given that I had to practically throw five poker players out of my apartment, whom I believe would have actually stayed until midnight and finally ordered food as I kept suggesting we might want to do.

The game started seven handed, went to eight handed, then nine handed (requiring people to sit out for TD2-7), then fell again to eight and then seven, and for the last two hour or so, six.

I think the stakes level worked out ok for some. Dawn Summers, who insisted that she was attending only the inaugural game, is likely to come back as she seemed to amass chips unbelievably well as people seemed to go all the way to the river with her over and over again in Stud/8 while they missed draws, and she somehow kept scooping with one pair. She also did well in the PLO rounds.

I pushed her out of one of the PLO pots with an all-in coup holding merely a semi-wrap (10 out or so) straight draw and weak flush against HighOnPoker, who was $11 short of an all-in in a large pot and held a better flush draw. I was glad to be holding blockers, but the flush got there. (Dawn folded two pair, quite correctly, because against our likely holdings and combined outs, she was a bit of a underdog.)

Much of the day was rather straightforward poker, but enjoyable because it was a good group enjoying the game. I think PL Draw High isn't that good of a game, because it doesn't generate much action and fails to generate much interest unless huge hands are against each other. Some argued that made the game more about reads, which perhaps it is, but who is really going to practice enough PL Draw to get good reads on opponents?

Regarding organizational issues, it's clearer now than ever that the round table (should be here this week!) was a good choice. Dawn's table is very nice, but being oval, it still makes it difficult for people on the far ends to deal. The only true misdeals we had were dealt by people on the ends. Plus, it's really hard to see everyone clearly.

I know some who were here yesterday felt the stakes were a bit high, so I hope that everyone ended up comfortable with what we had. I scared the heck out of myself when I thought I'd mis-cashed out an earlier departure, and was so worried I threw extra money of my own in the kitty just to make sure, and it turns out when we got to the end, everything was just fine. I suppose that was the only part about the stakes that bothered me a little bit — I've never been the “cage” for more than $40 before. :)

I cannot finish a post about yesterday without pointing out that Greg was ultimately right in the results of his failed experiement: you just can't pull off the powers of two chip denomination thing unless the entire game is made up of computer scientists. I finally realized toward the end of day that it was about biology more than anything else: people are born with five fingers, and I'm not going change a couple of million years of evolution simply by explaining how binary is really cool. Frankly, as W.K.'s new ThinkGeek t-shirt says: There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't. How many of you get that joke? Yeah, that's what I figured. :-/

Anyway, as maigrey said, Whatever justification it is you need to have standard chip values, you go ahead and believe it. So, after just one game, I'll abandon the great CS geekiness of my game. I was unable to convince anyone in the game to do away with opposable thumbs, nor chop off a pinky, and besides, they'd have to go back in time and grow up in a non-decimal culture for it to work. Freaking decimal-oriented, five-fingered freaks!

I'm going to keep the $2 chip, because it's a tribute to my years at Foxwoods in the 2/4 and 4/8 games, and that chip value does make playing 4/8 limit easier. However, I'll go for $1, $2, $5, $25 now. Does that make you all happy — killing my inner nerd? :)

I will probably mix up what days the home game occurs for the next few weeks, and see how the attendance pans out. The level of effort for the game is a bit higher than I thought, so I may need to move to a twice a month frequency after an initial flurry of test days.

Those of you on the list, watch for an invite soon to next week's game.

Oh, BTW, my wife says I need to serve better food than just junk food. My argument is that the donations received didn't cover the food I bought, which is no big deal — it wasn't mandatory — but I'm unlikely to up the expense of running the game further. I did suggest a few times that we could order food, and no one was too interested. I am going to leave the menus out for my local places for people to look at to perhaps inspire people to order next time.

Comments

[bobby-the-worm.livejournal.com]

I'm a little bit sad at the loss of the binary chips, but hey. :) Glad to hear the game worked out, though! Most excellent. Hoping for many future successes!

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

I think people would put up with the binary chips and still come, but what's the point of annoying everyone else for a silly geeky principle?

[tom-bayes.livejournal.com]

1. It's too bad PL 5CD didn't work out too well for you. I'm known for being a big proponent of draw. In my occasional home game with friends that are very casual and unsophisticated poker players, we get plenty of action in 5CD. It sounds like your group is a bit more sophisticated and 5CD does drag with solid players.

2. We traditionally order pizzas and the understanding is that everyone except the host pitches in for the pizza and brings other munchies (chips, peanuts, pretzels, etc). The host usually provides soft drinks and beer (it's not a huge drinking crowd, so this isn't too expensive) and it works well for us.

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

I think others like PL 5CD more than I did. I just felt that it didn't generate a lot of action. I think I'd like NL 2-7 lowball better. Most people were good enough NL HE players in our game that they didn't mess around much with draw. A few people tried to run over a bit during draw, but this didn't actually generate really large pots.

I suggested a pizza order, and Chinese food, and deli. I guess folks weren't that hungry? Anyway, we'll probably figure it out as time goes by.

[maigrey.livejournal.com]

The food thing will work itself out, so don't worry about that - I think i filled myself up too much on twix to eat real food.

I wouldn't object to a $5 or even $10 house food fee - I've played in home games like that before - sometimes people just don't think when they're leaving to chip in for food or they go broke and are heading for the door as soon as possible. a noon-6pm is kinda iffy for food anyway.

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

I don't really want to charge a mandatory fee. I may just draw more attention to the food donations bin. :) Lunchtime is somewhere in 12PM-6PM, isn't it? :)

[maigrey.livejournal.com]

it is and it isn't - people might have eaten earlier because they wanted to play poker, etc etc. :)

If you want to eat just say in the rules "we will order food" :)

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't care that much, I was just worried that people were forgoing their hunger so they wouldn't interrupt the game.

[shunny.livejournal.com]

How did you guys play PL Draw? Antes? Blinds with antes? Blinds?

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

We played it as a blind game; that's usually how draw games are played these days.

Various chip issues

[tmttr.livejournal.com]

I really don't think the binary thing was as big a problem as using colors that are associated with other values -- i.e., reds are always $5 (at least on the east coast) and greens are always $25. When you make them 4 and 16 -- well, that becomes a problem.

Also, I neglected to leave money for potato chips mostly because I never even thought about it. I think a mandatory fee of $5 for food is a better way to go.

Stakes were perfect for a mixture of games I was sometimes not familiar with (and some that I was). Personally, I like the idea of mixed limit games only (and leave the NL/PL games for a separate game)...

I wasn't willing to stay any later... but the poker was a perfect distraction from what I would have otherwise done -- cry in front of my TV as the Yankees stumbled out of the playoffs.

Re: Various chip issues

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

Hey, limit-only mixed games is what your home game will before, right? :)

[jhazen.livejournal.com]

"There are 10 types of people in the world..." How many of you get that joke?

Probably about 100 of us.

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

Likely about right. I was thinking it was more like 110. So far, only 11 have us have come forward, though. :)

[tmttr.livejournal.com]

You can add me into that count -- now you have at least 100. Like I said, it was more the color confusion than the actual dollar amounts for me. In fact, if the chips had been labeled 1, 100, 1000, 10000, I would have been fine -- and those stakes would have been fun.

Had a Great Time

[(Anonymous)]

Even though I lost a bit, I had a great time. Thanks for hosting. If I was making one tweak, I would do two rotations of each game before the game changes and have a lineup of 6 games. This way, there is a little more time to learn a game and get into it a bit before we switch. Other than that, it was a great first time and it was nice to meet everyone who showed up.

Seth

Re: Had a Great Time

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

I like the rapid changes, honestly. It keeps the game interesting and exciting.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for hosting the game Bradley. I had fun - good crowd, good mix of games.

Chips - I agree, the colors threw me off a bit. It was hard not to think the greens were $25, reds $5, etc. By the way, I guess I'm in the group of 100 who got the binary joke. I will admit I'm a geek!

Food - I consider playing poker as my weight loss scheme. I usually don't eat at all in those long stretches of playing (although I did eat some Twix bars). However, I will drink large amounts of coffee.

Stakes - The $4/$8 is a bit too high for me as an absolute beginner to these mixed games. I ended up losing a bit and I know that was due to my inexperience. I want to continue to learn but I may have to drop out if it gets too expensive for me. That said, I should be at the next game barring my work schedule.

Mary

[brettbrettbrett.livejournal.com]

If you charge for food I'm calling the cops.

[tmttr.livejournal.com]

If brettbrettbrett will be there next week, I will pay for his food too... we need a fish.

[brettbrettbrett.livejournal.com]

Last time I played a $1/$1 PL/NL game I lost $400 in 90 mins. Last time I played mixed limit game I lost 40 BB's. If I play Bradley can probably charge admission.

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

Wow, donk-tastic. Can you make it Sunday?

[brettbrettbrett.livejournal.com]

Sunday? Sunday's are for football amigo.

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

I have a TV. :)

[brettbrettbrett.livejournal.com]

I'd lose even more trying to watch both games. Nice try though.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, me too. especially if i'm losing.
-dawn

[(Anonymous)]

When I first started to run my games I used to buy pizza for everyone. That got to be expensive and I downgraded to snacks, that got to mess up my cards and I downgraded to every man fend for himself. I've found that works best. Most people wanna play cards, they can eat any old time.

I did have fun at the game, but like Mary, think the $4-8 is too high for me to be a regular. (I don't even play LHE at those stakes.) Plus, I think with $1/1 as the stakes for the no limit/pot limit games, wouldn't 1-2 or 2-4 make more sense for the limit games?

-dawn

[shipitfish.livejournal.com]

In my experience, the variance of a $5/$10 limit game is about the same as a $1/$2 NL/PL game. Therefore, $1/$1 PL/NL should be close to $4/$8 limit in terms of variance, etc. The $1/$1 was entirely a compromise because people were concerned the stakes on the PL/NL side were too big. I'd be inclined to take that $1/$2 rather than lower the limit stakes. I'm going to keep running it at these stakes; if the game cannot happen regularly at these stakes, it will just have to be somewhat irregular. Truth is, I feel I'm at the bottom level of stakes for which I'd want to run a home game.

[(Anonymous)]

SIF to Dawn: Shut yer piehole.

-dawn

Thanks again

[(Anonymous)]

So I just posted on IHadOuts, so I felt it only proper to chime in here, on our hosts page. I've been dubbed SamTheDealer, evidently, and my ploy to play like a donk-tastic fish, to set you all up for future games, didn't quite pan out, but I blame that mostly on the cards. Heck, even I can't lose with the run of cards I got. But rest assured, all you that were there Saturday for home game 0x0 as Bradley has referred to it in his binary computer geek-ness (I'm impressed Bradley, just confused), I'm not nearly that good usually. Ask Seth, or Karol, or any NYC club NLHE player...I'm a break even player at best, just trying to get better. But let me offer my thoughts on some discussed tweaks for future SIF@home sessions. I'm ok with Sundays, so long as the pigskin is on the TV, (but I might be saying that in reaction to my JETS stinking it up Sunday), and am definitely there this week for 0x1. As for stakes, I'm fine with them as they are; I'm a proponent of higher, not lower, (sorry Dawn), but the majority rules, so the limit can be 1-2, the blinds 1-1..we can do away with NL games and play pot limit only...I truly just enjoyed the game and the players. (But you have my vote to pump it up a lil, Bradley, I'm fine with 300 max to start or even more). As for food, I tried to get the kitty going, leaving both chip and cash, but I think charging is the best way to avoid it being forgotten, Bradley; in fact, first order of pizza is on me Sunday, as a thanks to the host and the game! I hope to see all of you back there this weekend, or at subsequent SIF@home gatherings, and I look forward to this becoming a long running success! - SamTheDealer

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry I couldn't make connect with you all...but glad you had liftoff (and glad the base 2 chips are going away)....

Chris (the anti-declare guy)