I suppose the once place where it is toughest is the truly
micro-limits that you play. I know what you are talking about; I was sick
yesterday (bad enough to use a sick day at work), and I stayed at home.
As I felt better in the evening, I decided to play poker, but being sick I
didn't want to do anything that could actually hurt my bankroll, so I
played $10 buy-in NL HE.
I can see what you are saying about it. You are right that at that
level, level-1 thinking is very murky in the minds of your opponents.
This fact alone can help you, though. When I play at those stakes, I
basically use a strategy very close to my limit HE game at a very loose
table, with a minor adjustment to value medium-pocket-pairs higher than I
would in limit. I never continuation bet, as you suggest, on the flop
when I have nothing. I wait until I have top pair or better to bet, but I
use check-raising more often to shut people out when I have a medium
strength holding (that's a limit thing that I use less in NL because it
dangerously reopens the betting, but I am less worried about it given the
passivity in the $10 buy-in game).
These games just aren't bluffable. You're bluffs aren't succeeding, as
you see, but what you see happening is they are paying off with extremely
questionable holdings. What I do in that spot is look for value bets that
I can make that they are likely to pay off.
For example, if they have only $3 left, and the pot is $3, I'm more
likely to bet $1, because it won't take their whole stack to call. People
seem to really hate losing their stack in that game, and are less likely
to call with marginal hands when you put them all in. However, they
probably still call often enough that making a bluff that way is negative
EV, since you are risking at worse odds.
As I see it, the other way to make money in these games is give up
everything but your strongest hands when raised. Surprisingly, it seems
the $10 games are full of calling stations that are too timid to raise
unless their hand is huge. No one makes moves, so if someone is a true
maniac, they will show it by raising every single hand. Most of the
players there are just passive callers, so you can throw away top pair
quickly for even a min-raise. (I should note that I've only played this
game on Full
Tilt, other sites may be different.)
BTW, you mention bluffing at scare-cards at the river after you've made
a continuation bet on the flop having been the preflop raiser. Keep in
mind that's a level-3 play that you are making against people who are
struggling at level-1! He has to be able to understand what you were
doing on the flop to be afraid when the scare card hits. You need a
player that can think at level-2 for that bluff to work. Other people are
just going to call. So, the play is a mistake because you are going to
deep. Instead, wait until you have a marginal hand on the flop or turn
(say, QT with top pair) and be willing to value bet it twice more often
than you would against strong players, because these weak players will
often call twice with middle pair. If they raise you, they are winning
and you throw it away.
Finally, don't ever auto-pilot. I think I know what you meant, but
there's a difference between auto-pilot and having something deeply
ingrained. It's one thing to have something so deeply in your bones that
it's second nature, but it's another to coast. Be sure you know the
difference. Also, be sure you really have that level-1 thinking as much
as you think you do. I used to think I really had a handle on level-1
thinking, but then discovered that I had some big leaks in how I valued
hands. For example, what do you do with flopped open trips with
second or third kicker when a reasonable player raises? How valuable is
that hand? If you don't see immediately that you now have, at best, a
drawing hand to three or four outs, you probably don't understand relative
hand value well enough yet and you may have to dig deeper into level-1.
There are dozens of subtle situations like that where the HE hand strength
is deceptively weaker.
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no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 15:57 (UTC)I suppose the once place where it is toughest is the truly micro-limits that you play. I know what you are talking about; I was sick yesterday (bad enough to use a sick day at work), and I stayed at home. As I felt better in the evening, I decided to play poker, but being sick I didn't want to do anything that could actually hurt my bankroll, so I played $10 buy-in NL HE.
I can see what you are saying about it. You are right that at that level, level-1 thinking is very murky in the minds of your opponents. This fact alone can help you, though. When I play at those stakes, I basically use a strategy very close to my limit HE game at a very loose table, with a minor adjustment to value medium-pocket-pairs higher than I would in limit. I never continuation bet, as you suggest, on the flop when I have nothing. I wait until I have top pair or better to bet, but I use check-raising more often to shut people out when I have a medium strength holding (that's a limit thing that I use less in NL because it dangerously reopens the betting, but I am less worried about it given the passivity in the $10 buy-in game).
These games just aren't bluffable. You're bluffs aren't succeeding, as you see, but what you see happening is they are paying off with extremely questionable holdings. What I do in that spot is look for value bets that I can make that they are likely to pay off.
For example, if they have only $3 left, and the pot is $3, I'm more likely to bet $1, because it won't take their whole stack to call. People seem to really hate losing their stack in that game, and are less likely to call with marginal hands when you put them all in. However, they probably still call often enough that making a bluff that way is negative EV, since you are risking at worse odds.
As I see it, the other way to make money in these games is give up everything but your strongest hands when raised. Surprisingly, it seems the $10 games are full of calling stations that are too timid to raise unless their hand is huge. No one makes moves, so if someone is a true maniac, they will show it by raising every single hand. Most of the players there are just passive callers, so you can throw away top pair quickly for even a min-raise. (I should note that I've only played this game on Full Tilt, other sites may be different.)
BTW, you mention bluffing at scare-cards at the river after you've made a continuation bet on the flop having been the preflop raiser. Keep in mind that's a level-3 play that you are making against people who are struggling at level-1! He has to be able to understand what you were doing on the flop to be afraid when the scare card hits. You need a player that can think at level-2 for that bluff to work. Other people are just going to call. So, the play is a mistake because you are going to deep. Instead, wait until you have a marginal hand on the flop or turn (say, QT with top pair) and be willing to value bet it twice more often than you would against strong players, because these weak players will often call twice with middle pair. If they raise you, they are winning and you throw it away.
Finally, don't ever auto-pilot. I think I know what you meant, but there's a difference between auto-pilot and having something deeply ingrained. It's one thing to have something so deeply in your bones that it's second nature, but it's another to coast. Be sure you know the difference. Also, be sure you really have that level-1 thinking as much as you think you do. I used to think I really had a handle on level-1 thinking, but then discovered that I had some big leaks in how I valued hands. For example, what do you do with flopped open trips with second or third kicker when a reasonable player raises? How valuable is that hand? If you don't see immediately that you now have, at best, a drawing hand to three or four outs, you probably don't understand relative hand value well enough yet and you may have to dig deeper into level-1. There are dozens of subtle situations like that where the HE hand strength is deceptively weaker.
Hope this is helpful to you.