i am going to refrain from entering into the personality clash discussed here and on nick's blog. in particular, i won't comment on calling people "dicks," "conceited," or "self-absorbed." that's your opinion.
i do want to make three points:
1) you state this goal of having fun without going to great lengths to extract small extra edges -- in particular psychological edges. but much of poker is about that edge, as much as it is about the math and stats. so, within the game of poker, is it improper to seek fun, not EV, by exploring that very important aspect of the game?
at a home game, is it okay to: - show a huge bluff? - show a huge laydown indicating a tremendous read? - lie about what cards you held? - tell a person that you "knew" what they were going to do? i.e. "i knew if i bet that much you'd just have to fold." - try to put somebody on tilt by dealing them a bad beat?
surely trash talking cannot be without bounds, but isn't some allowed? shouldn't you just learn to see such tactics as part of the game that you love and zone them out, as rory suggests?
2) on several occasions you have mislabeled actions as rude attempts to gain an edge, when i truly believe they were nothing of the sort.
when steven asked nick why he was upset about losing that pot after steven spiked a 3 outer, i don't think he was trying to gain an edge. afterall, steven had been outplayed. i've seen chip reese, phil ivey, howard lederer, etc all get hit with *tremendous* beats when the stakes were *much* higher, and they barely bat an eyelash. they stood up, shook people's hands, and walked over to the bar with a comment of "that's poker." shit, a week ago that ken feller, who is quite a fish, got all his money with top set against bradley's AA. bradley rivered an A (*two* outer), and ken rebought (without throwing his phone first).
i think steven's question was a sign of respect. he wouldn't ask some luck-chasing loser that question -- he'd just assume that player didn't understand EV and let it go. i suspect that steven sensed exactly what nick stated -- that nick explicitly wanted to take down a pot from steven and was pissed when lady luck took that golden chance away (heck, i like to beat steven in pots too! i've won and lost many multiple hundred dollar pots with steven -- many decided by river cards.)
another mislabeled edge-gaining attempt is people asking for a new topic of discussion, or asking somebody to "just be quiet," or more rudely, teling somebody to "shut up." (blame bill oreilly). this leads to my third point:
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
my three points (first two)
Date: 2005-01-02 20:20 (UTC)here and on nick's blog. in particular, i won't comment on calling people
"dicks," "conceited," or "self-absorbed." that's your opinion.
i do want to make three points:
1) you state this goal of having fun without going to great lengths to
extract small extra edges -- in particular psychological edges. but much
of poker is about that edge, as much as it is about the math and stats.
so, within the game of poker, is it improper to seek fun, not EV, by
exploring that very important aspect of the game?
at a home game, is it okay to:
- show a huge bluff?
- show a huge laydown indicating a tremendous read?
- lie about what cards you held?
- tell a person that you "knew" what they were going to do?
i.e. "i knew if i bet that much you'd just have to fold."
- try to put somebody on tilt by dealing them a bad beat?
surely trash talking cannot be without bounds, but isn't some allowed?
shouldn't you just learn to see such tactics as part of the game that you
love and zone them out, as rory suggests?
2) on several occasions you have mislabeled actions as rude attempts to
gain an edge, when i truly believe they were nothing of the sort.
when steven asked nick why he was upset about losing that pot after steven
spiked a 3 outer, i don't think he was trying to gain an edge. afterall,
steven had been outplayed. i've seen chip reese, phil ivey, howard
lederer, etc all get hit with *tremendous* beats when the stakes were
*much* higher, and they barely bat an eyelash. they stood up, shook
people's hands, and walked over to the bar with a comment of "that's
poker." shit, a week ago that ken feller, who is quite a fish, got all
his money with top set against bradley's AA. bradley rivered an A (*two*
outer), and ken rebought (without throwing his phone first).
i think steven's question was a sign of respect. he wouldn't ask some
luck-chasing loser that question -- he'd just assume that player didn't
understand EV and let it go. i suspect that steven sensed exactly what
nick stated -- that nick explicitly wanted to take down a pot from steven
and was pissed when lady luck took that golden chance away (heck, i like
to beat steven in pots too! i've won and lost many multiple hundred
dollar pots with steven -- many decided by river cards.)
another mislabeled edge-gaining attempt is people asking for a new topic
of discussion, or asking somebody to "just be quiet," or more rudely,
teling somebody to "shut up." (blame bill oreilly). this leads to my
third point: