Limit Game in NYC

Thursday night, I went to a limit-only club in NYC. It was a surprise to discover it existed, because there is so much focus on NL right now. I was glad to hear about the club, and I'll write a more involved review eventually, if/when I start posting actual club reviews.

The first, foremost and constant thing on my mind during the entire game, which I stayed with from button-high-card until it broke, was that how much more social and friendly limit games are. People are there for such different reasons than NL. Limit poker seems like a cocktail party where everyone is trying a bit too hard to impress each other. NL poker seems like a organized debate where everyone has taken clear stands on the issue and is shouting as loud as they can to win.

I was a bit nervous about the game, because as a 10/20 HE game with a half-kill, it killed to one higher limit than I usually play. But, I decided it was a good chance to work on my live limit game -- having been out of practice since Boston when I could visit Foxwoods regularly.

It was interesting to meet Matt and Steph, a husband and wife, who had gotten a baby-sitter to play in this game. It was a strange thing to imagine -- that such a thing was a night out for a couple. I suppose it was so strange for me because poker is not something my wife would ever do. Matt mentioned how tough it was ("How many times do you think we've heard, 'someone's sleeping on the couch', after a bad beat?", he said), and perhaps I joked more about colluding with them than I should have. But, the whole situation somewhat intrigued me.

Matt and Steph were relatively strong players, although they played a little looser preflop (particularly calling raises cold) than I do in limit. A few of the other players were extremely tight-aggressive and tough to beat. But, there were a number of people making some serious mistakes, and the game was certainly beatable; I at least wasn't a fish.

It felt, however, strangely constricting to play live limit HE again. I don't mind it online, but there I have focused lately on short-handed play. Playing a full table of limit reminded me of the old adages I'd built in my years of low-limit at Foxwoods: "A bit bet is a precious thing", and "One pair is nearly always beat when raised on the turn in a multiway pot", etc. It felt a bit formulaic, and I focused on what I feel is the real challenge in full-table limit: finding every last value bet you can.

When I payed off an obvious KK/AA (it was KK, as it turned out) with JJ as an overpair, I realized that I was unfortunately playing the classic "NL player in a limit game" trap, by paying off on the turn and river because it's "just one more bet" each time. A big bet is so precious in limit, so I started making laydowns and only made one more mistake like that over the night.

One of the highlights of this jovial and friendly table was the arrival of Dan, whom I immediately recognized from River Street back in Boston. I don't think he remembered me, and in fact, we realized later that our River Street overlap was a different time than I had thought (I though I had remembered him as an player from the early days, but he actually was from the late days in the Boston location). It was good to connect back to the old game, and to talk of Little John's craziness and other unique things that make miss the Boston poker world of those days.

I actually watched Dan play a hand that made me think about how much of what I've said about AK in NL can also apply to limit, too. I saw Dan four-bet from the SB after four people had entered the pot. "Google Guy" (a young recent college graduate who worked for Google) bad-beat him (sort of) with A6o, and Dan bemoaned his fate. I actually think throwing away AK in that spot makes some sense. Certainly capping is better than calling three bets cold, but I wonder if there is any real need to play the hand in that spot when you have to take the flop out of position with some the aces obviously already dead, and probably a big pair out, too. Dan was "forced" to bet out on the 8 high flop, and got into a betting war when Google Guy made a second pair when the turn fell an A.

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The bad side of limit showed itself too: the young whiner "pro" who can't handle the game in any real way. Ours showed up and immediately got QQ "cracked". He didn't stop whining until he finally left an hour later, after ripping two cards (an AK that missed) and spitting on two more (KK when an Ace flopped). I would have preferred if the club owner had thrown him out after the ripping incident. However, I think the club owner thought he could "control this kid" and needed the players anyway.

Around 02:00, the game got short-handed, and I actually began to shine a bit. It helped that I got the best group of starting hands for the night and connected with some flops, but I felt so much more comfortable and able to control the game in short-handed mode. That's not to say I couldn't still commune with the full table game and patiently play correctly in it, but I wonder sometimes if I could sit in those full-table limit games day-in and day-out and stay interested. There's just so much more fun stuff going on in NL and short handed limit. I hate myself a bit for saying that after scoffing back so often at those NL-only players who had scoffed at limit HE.

But, the social side of the whole thing was not to be ignored. I felt like I was in a real social situation with (mostly) friendly and good people. That's something I haven't felt since River Street, and I liked it. Most of NYC poker is a shouting "debate" of NL confrontations that require every controlled bit of psychological power to play correctly. A little less of that is mandatory in full-table limit, it seems.

Strangely, I was even willing to talk a bit about this journal. The interest was mixed; the Google Guy was the first one to say: "Who would ever want to read a poker blog?", and a few of the tight-aggressive sharks said: "do you have a big readership and make some money from it?" Matt seemed interested enough that I gave him the URL. But, the fact that I picked that night for the first time to mention the blog in a NYC poker situation indicates that it was friendly place.