shipitfish | Freeroll or Medal?

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Freeroll or Medal?

Full Tilt Poker, one of the few remaining sites permitting players from the USA, has held its “Iron Man“ Promotion for quite some time. If you earn N “Full Tilt Points” for Y consecutive days, you get to play in a freeroll. The greater your values of N and Y, the greater the prize pool of the freeroll you get to play. (There are four levels of freeroll.)

This year, they've introduced another option for Iron Man points. Instead of entering the freeroll each month, you can opt for an award of additional “Iron Man Medals”, which can then be cashed in for things at this Iron Man Store, which you have to look into to realize it's not the same as the standard Full Tilt Store.

You earn some medals, regardless, by a formula based on how many times you repeat this silly Iron Man status. This new decision just allows you to forgo freerolls to get some bonus medals. I'm likely to earn tons of medals the usual way this year because I'm planning to play almost exclusively online for most of the year, and Full Tilt is, of course, one of only three sites I can play on as a player living under the totalitarian regime of the USA.

The question that comes up is whether, at the end of the month, should I take my spot in the freerolls, or should I forgo the freerolls and cash them into medal points?

This is all somewhat of a pointless exercise, since the real EV is in the playing that earns the points, not the bonuses from the points, but being a poker player I can't help but calculate the EV of every decision that presents itself.

There are only three things of actual value in the Iron Man store: (a) extra 5,000 Full Tilt Points (more on why this has value below), (b) $535 tourney entry fees and (c) $216 tourney entry fees.

Let's take the last two first. Since (b) and (c) cost roughly 3,000 and 1,000 medals (respectively), and since you only get a spare 25-100 from forgoing the freerolls, it seems to me it's better to take the freerolls. The prize pools are between $10,000-$30,000, and the competition is probably softer than in the actual $216/$535 tourneys. I theorize this because the people who regularly buy into such middle-limit tourneys are much better tournament players than I, whereas any idiotic, cash-game donkey can get into the freeroll just by playing a lot. Therefore, I think the monthly freeroll is better EV than exchanging that entry for a tenth of $216 tourney entry ticket.

Now, what about (a), the 5,000 Full Tilt points? Well, the main Full Tilt store has a single item that I'd bother to buy with my points: A large screen Plasma TV. It costs 400,000 points. I recently calculated I'll probably reach that amount sometime early next year anyway via my usual Full Tilt Poker play. Therefore, it probably isn't worth it to waste the medal points to get me closer to that, because I'll probably get enough points for the TV eventually anyway, and I just had to buy a new CRT TV to replace a broken old one, so I am no hurry.

Thus, I can't see a reason that I'd want to stop playing the freerolls (in which I've yet to win a dime, of course). There is substantial EV in them; I'm a favorite against the field of random qualifying players, and the top prizes are usually in the thousands. Definitely worth the time to play them.

I know that at least one person who reads this journal (hello there, jellymillion :) has played enough in the past to earn these Iron Man thingies. Therefore, I ask, have I missed something? Is there some reason I should do it differently?

Finally, I have to say that these incentive and promotion programs are unnecessarily complicated. Like rebate forms, they are designed to make it difficult to figure out what they mean so that people are less likely to take advantage of them. I have a hard time believing the Iron Man thing actually draws more people to the site. Why not do away with the program entirely and give an across-the-board rake reduction to all players?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I hadn't thought about buying extra points, I've always sort of viewed the points as semi-useless. But you're right, with the advent of the cooler items, this may prove useful.

I was thinking about buying a $300 or $600 bonus, but this might be the way to go.

Yeah, the bonuses are probably useful for some. For me, it just slows down my rake-back anyway, so there's basically no point.

You're still paying for it one way or the other, it's deducted from MGR if you buy something from the store...

I'm not 100% sure I understand you. Do you mean, if you use FTPs to buy something from the store, it reduces your rake back for the price of the thing, or some percentage thereof? I got a jacket from the store a long while back, but didn't notice its impact on my rake back, but it could have been small enough that I just failed to notice.

I mean exactly that. People on 2p2 are all bent about it, but I don't care that much. I don't know the exact numbers...

I have zero analysis to offer on the medal thingy yet. I am, of course, a huge fan of the freerolls, having earned $10,835 in total through them - about 80% of last year's profit.

I haven't really got on to FTP yet this year - I thought I'd clear the Stars reload at the double and see if Gold Star is feasible at my typical play rates.

Awesome results! Congrats! I definitely have to play them. In the past I guess I got completely blinded off. I'm sure I must have earned them, but had never given much attention to the Iron Man promotion.

At the double? Oh, yo mean keeping Silver?

I'm in the midst of seeing if Gold is workable for me too since I want a bigger/better iPod, maybe...

I'm thinking of getting to Gold. I don't think it's sustainable, though, with my playing hours. I have to decide whether I'd want something from the Gold VIP goodie list. It would be nice to monetize some of those FPPs. GBP Amazon vouchers would be nice, I could book those as a straight bonus into my spreadsheet. I think I'm likely to be able to do about 3000VPPs a month, which is neither one thing nor another.

FTP Bronze is so easy to maintain though. If I'm playing more than 75% of my monthly hands there then Silver/Gold is pretty straightforward and I suppose I could push it to Iron with a little sleep loss in a quiet month. If I ran Bronze for 3 months then threw in a Gold month, would I get Gold medals on the 4- or 1-month schedule? I should check that. Anyway, I ran up 100FTPs last night just in case.

These two sites are making it very hard for me to want to play anywhere else. I'm thinking of cashing in my Party Points, rather than maintaining them with the couple of hours a month I'm putting in. Even their bonuses are tedious. I suppose I shouldn't mention P***y P***r to folk in the US though...

Better cash those Party Points quickly, aren't they closing the store soon?

jellymillion wrote:

These two sites are making it very hard for me to want to play anywhere else.

You Lucky subjects of Her Majesty, able to play poker anywhere they want. Those two sites you mention are, in fact, two of the only three we yanks are allowed to play on. :) It's very hard for us to play anywhere else too, but for very different reasons. :)

I'm a favorite against the field of random qualifying players

Could you create a category for your online tournament results for us poor anonymous posters?

Hmm, well, I do have a number of tags that aren't actually in the “Key Articles” section on the left. I do have one for tournaments. Actually, if you could simultaneously search for two tags or once, the tags “online” and “tournaments” together would probably yield all the posts where I talk about online tournaments. However, I just realized that I don't actually know how to get LiveJournal to do a union search of two tags. Quite an oversight for the LiveJournal programmers if they failed to provide that feature. I'll look into it and see; maybe someday I'll even write a patch; after all, there's a reason why I use a GPL'd journaling site.

I just did add a link on the left to “Other entry tags...” so that you can quickly find all the tags from the journal.

Anyway, you asked specifically about my tournament results. I should note that I don't usually make general “results” posts. Once per year, at tax time when I add up the numbers, I post my annual results, but other than that, I don't post results in a general way. I just find the whole thing somewhat ho-hum. If the world never had to look at another screenshot of someone's place in a tournament or numbers from their PokerTracker database, honestly, I'd be quite happy.

As for the implication from your statement, which I read as how can you be sure you are a favorite over the field if you don't have a lot of tournament results, that's a good point. My guess is that most people who qualify for the freerolls are the same fools I see dumping their money in the cash games day in and day out. Indeed, I've been a little annoyed, now that I'm using Full Tilt so extensively, that after the freerolls go up, it looks like all my tracked fish are online but they are really just auto-registered for the freeroll. So, while I'm generally not a very good tournament player, it's all about relative skill, and I think my developed cash-game skills and my basic tourney knowledge are pretty transferable against this field.

Oh, and finally on the tagging issue, note that I haven't gone back and tagged my entries from before LiveJournal had tags. You'll have to use memories to see posts from there. Most of my memory categories mirror my tag categories. I do plan to eventually go back and tag old entries.

It's not very difficult to cash in the freerolls, but it's difficult to cash for that much money, you have to go pretty deep, and it requires at least a couple hours. It may change somewhat with the advent of the opt-in, but I wouldn't expect it to be drastic.

It looks like those of us who were previously qualifying are going to get an extra 500 medals and they also tell you in the latest email how many bonus medals you qualify for. It's still a bit confusing, but now I'm definitely more enthused about the whole thing.

I'm sorry I don't have time to read through all the comments, so feel free to delete this comment if this has already been brought up, but...

regarding weak players in a FreeRoll vs Skilled players in the buy-in MTT
the free roll probably has a very top heavy payout which might cancel out you expected increase in EV due to the skill gap.

Another question to concider, is it either a freeroll or turn in the medal for the $216 token? or do you have to pass up multiple FRs for one token?

If it's one for one, I'd lean toward the buyin since there will be a lot of "idiotic, cash-game donkey"s going that route as well, so the $216 will be also have a slight skill gap.

also, look at your hourly rate. If it's 5000 players in a free roll that pays the top 50 players, you'll have to play atleast five hours just to barely cash. Where as the buy-in MTT will likely be smaller fields and go faster. All things being equal, even though the pay outs are smaller in the buy-in MTT you'll be in and out faster.

Consider that as well, especially in reference to your hourly rate at a regular cash game table. It would weight you towards the buy-in MTT more since you'll be able to spend more time making money as well as earning more towards the next medal.

regarding weak players in a FreeRoll vs Skilled players in the buy-in MTT the free roll probably has a very top heavy payout which might cancel out you expected increase in EV due to the skill gap.

Yes, it is top-heavy which I really thought was actually good for the skilled players. Once we get to the cash level, people are going to be playing really tight weak to make the $32 of the first payouts. I don't care about winning $32, I'll be wanting to accumulate chips and shoot for $1,500. That's the best spot for a skilled player in a tourney in my view.

Another question to consider, is it either a freeroll or turn in the medal for the $216 token? or do you have to pass up multiple FRs for one token?

It's certainly not either/or, it's more of a question of whether you should try to get medals faster by forgoing freerolls and therefore over the long haul getting more $216 or other tokens.

also, look at your hourly rate. If it's 5000 players in a free roll that pays the top 50 players, you'll have to play atleast five hours just to barely cash

Yeah, I thought about hourly rate considerations a bit, but my feeling is that I'll play the first few hours on semi-auto-pilot while holding open two cash game windows. My EV goes down a bit in the tourney, but the early stages of such a freeroll should mostly be easy-to-read players that don't require my full concentration. So, I'm basically trying to win the card race early on (like you can bluff and blind-steal much against a weak freeroll field anyway), get enough chips to be a contender to cash by mid-tourney, and then turn my focus. So, it's more of a “no real time commitment unless I get near to cashing”

Indeed, I find tourneys so freaking frustrating most of the time that I'd feel better if it was just a freeroll that I bust out on with KK vs. AQ. If I'd spent a bunch of medals that could have been used to get me closer to a plasma TV or somesuch, I'd probably get annoyed. :)

does anyone know how the ftp iron man points are calculated?

just out of interest, how are the FTP actually awarded, i mainly play 20+2 SnG's and want to know how many points i get per game?

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Freeroll or Medal?

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