shipitfish | The Biggest Bet I've Ever Called: $452

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The Biggest Bet I've Ever Called: $452

Back at River Street once, I called a bet that was somewhere between $300 and $400. Until last week, that was the biggest single bet I'd ever called (or made, for that matter) in a poker cash game. Thursday night, I made that new amount $452, which yielded the largest pot I've ever played as well: $1,012.

Work Dan (since there are two Dans commonly mentioned in my journal, I'll start being more careful to distinguish) and I went to the U Club for an evening of poker last Thursday. The $1/$2 NL ($300 max) game was more happening than usual. There were a number of calling stations, and a number of would-be “strong” players who would make big all-in raises when they should have just called (e.g., when holding a straight made on the turn on a board that made a three-flush on the river), or who would constantly overplay one pair.

I had built a stack from my $300 buy-in to $475 when the following hand came up. I limped from middle position after one limper with 5 7. Most pots were seeing flops with no raises for the preceding fifteen minutes or so; the table was quite passive. Two more limped behind me and the small blind completed. The big blind (BB), a regular who has good starting hand selection but couldn't fold an overpair at all once he saw a flop, raised, making it $25 to go.

The limper between us quickly folded, and I looked to the left. I got the feeling that one of the two limpers behind me was ready to call (a calling station who would pay almost any amount for a draw). I figured the small blind and the other limper were likely to fold. I was offered 25-to-60 (roughly 1-to-2.5) direct odds to call. These weren't great, but I had a really clear idea of what the BB held. He had AK earlier, and had raised a smaller amount from the blind with roughly the same number of limpers. However, with QQ, he'd raised about this amount. I really eliminated the no-pair hands right there — I felt pretty strongly he wouldn't commit that much (he was a bit of an “absolute amount” better) with even an AKs. I decided TT was maybe a possibility, but JJ-AA were the most likely.

The BB was also very deep; he had me covered for sure (I eye-balled it at around $500, turns out it was $580). I decided to call, because if I flopped two pair or better, he would have trouble folding and put a lot into the pot drawing thin. Two folks actually called behind me (the calling station I expected and the button), and we saw the flop four-handed with $108 in the pot.

I watched the BB watch the flop. He didn't love it, but I felt before I even looked myself that he held an overpair to it. He stared for a moment, then looked at his chips and aggressively said “All in”. I began thinking why did he make such a huge overbet? as I looked down to see 5 7 5. Wow! Ok, so I have the second nuts, and someone likely drawing to two outs just bet $450 at me!

I looked behind me to see if there was any way I could showboat to get the short (relative) stacks to call, probably drawing at a flush. They looked as ready to fold as anyone could look, so I said Call and watched their cards hit the muck. He tabled the A A, and stared at me, looking worried. When the fourth five hit the board, I turned my hand up saying: You have outs to the bad beat jackpot, I think. (As it turned out he didn't; the bad beat jackpot at the club had been hit the previous night, and they'd increased the requirement from “any aces-full beat” to “aces-full-of-kings beat”, but I didn't know that until after the hand was done.)

I counted out my chips and said, $452, I think, dealer, please recount me, though. Meanwhile, this guy was going ballistic. I didn't listen to most of it; it went on for a full minute. The last utterance was: what do I need to raise preflop to get you off that donkey shit?. I didn't know what to do, I wanted to remain silent but felt bad and wanted to say something. I gave the only answer that came to mind: If you went all-in preflop, I wouldn't have called. I should have kept my mouth shut, because that probably made it worse, but I didn't know what to do with the guy flipping out. (He fortunately wasn't the beat-you-up-outside-later type, but I made sure waited a full half after he left before leaving.)

He kept muttering but I just ignored it as the dealer squared and shipped. There was a lot of chat after the fellow left (an hour later after he dumped his rebuy to Work Dan — more on that later) about why he'd made this overbet. My best theory remains that he was focused on the other stacks, which were only about $200 at most. I think he thought that he was overbetting by about 2-to-1 instead of nearly 4.5-to-1. It's a great example of making sure you know the stack sizes. I didn't feel bad because I'm always careful to keep my stack visible with all greens up front.

In the end, considering his reaction, I think he was more angry with himself for the overbet than he was at me for playing 57s. And, hey, maybe I am a donkey. But, knowing he'd often overplay an overpair, I think I had reasonable implied odds to call. What do you all think?

Obligatory stack pictures are available as always.

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he couldn't have played the hand worse.

Did I make a mistake preflop, or the implied odds there reasonable given my read on his tendency to overplay one pair?

$25 is only slightly more than 5% of the effective stack sizes, so this is an autocall for me, especially given that it's pretty obvious where he stands and your read that he overplays big pairs. if you had only the starting stack of $300 and/or you thought he was good enough to get away from AA if you out flop him, then it would become a more marginal PF call.

Implied odds and pot odds pretty much go out the window when the guy practically plays with his cards face up.

I think you need to be more worried about the other two players in the hand since you know less of what they have.

yeah, I was walking by the table when you and he had your hands face-up. I didn't see the pre-flop action, but figured you'd gotten long odds and position to play your hand. Once the flop comes, its easy. (Calling a big bet with the nuts? I sort of expected more from tthis post:)) I sort of hate that guy so, on a personal note, I was glad to see the pot being shipped your way. Guys who play predictibly like him, who I also don't like, are the reason I'm considering sitting in that game. The fact that I'm running bad at limit contributes too:) nh. So, if you're him, what's your flop play? I think I'd bet about 75% or so of the pot, see what's what. When a good player calls me though, it gets tricky. You havenm't ditinguished your hand from any PP his/my/our aces beat. But if the board is 5575 I guess checking the turn isn't horrible. Being out of position sucks.

It's your blog, so you cetainly have every right to post a new high water mark.

But really, the main point of this post should be that the other guy shouldn't have gone so ballistic, and ideally, you should have said nothing (unless you intentionally wanted to piss him off and tilt him more). His "what do I need to bet" question is clearly not worth an answer. And the "you have outs to the bad beat" comment isn't going to do anything except bother him.

Of course we're all human. We aren't robots at the poker table.

At what point was he going to make a laydown with those aces? Clearly if he checks, you bet the pot, somebody calls, he raises the min, and you move all in and the 3rd person calls. Fine, he gets the hint that two pair is no good.

But I think plenty of people would immediately call with any overpair to that board.

Now, if you both had stacks of $5k there. Okay, fine. You can't just go all in.

Once my AA hit a flop of 777. I got all in (this was $1/$2 and I had popped it to $50 pre-flop -- got all in for something like $200). Insta-call and I saw 78. Turn and river were 88.

Sometimes the deck hits you.

Anyway, imagine the power of your response being saying absolutely nothing for a while and maybe letting out an "WOW did I just get lucky. Thank you dealer."

Yes, I agree that saying nothing might have been the best. However, I realize that likely I said what I did to encourage him to continue overplaying one pair. The point is that this guy's standard mistake is that he overvalues “top pair, strong kicker” and overpairs. That's where his money is getting dumped into the game. I want him to continue to feel that overbetting big pairs is the best play.

Yeah, I got lucky, but he didn't need to lose so much there. As someone asked elsewhere in the thread, what's the right play for him, in my opinion? I think the right play is to bet out half the pot ($50) and if he gets called by anyone but the calling station, tread very carefully on the turn. There is no way the other two of us (of the four who saw the flop) would have called any reasonable flop bet from him without at least trip fives. If he was thinking more about what we had than what he had, he'd have realized that and limited his losses when out of position by making more of a feeler bet. That feeler bet is going to take it down, unless (a) one of the two stronger players in the pot has a five or (b) the calling station has a flush draw or a five.

He may end up all-in against the calling station, and if the flush doesn't get there, he might get it all-in against the calling station's trips, but that dude only had $200 or less behind. That's, frankly, the only guy he can think he's beating if he gets called for half the pot on the flop! There is no way he can reasonably think that committed his chips against any of two other strong players is a good move.

I agree that a different response might have been better. But, OTOH, the goal in making a comment is to keep this guy thinking he just got “unlucky”. I don't agree; he could have lost a lot less. As swolfe said, he played the hand terribly.

As for mentioning the bad beat jackpot, I wanted to make sure I drew the dealer's (and the table's) attention to the possibility (again, thinking the rules hadn't changed since two nights before). I had heard the club owner complaining that it had been hit the previous night, and I didn't want anyone to miss the fact that our table was owed $1,000 if it turned out to be so.

BTW, I should note that if this anonymous poster is who I think it is, that I've seen him lay down Aces multiple times very correctly in spots where it was clear you were beat. I agree about your trip-seven flop hand, particularly against weak opponents who will get it in with you with any overpair, but this guy could have done better.

I just realized that the 7 from my hand couldn't play against the board if he hit aces full, because the ace on the board would have to play against the quad fives. Since it's a two cards must play jackpot, I realize now that it impossible for there to be jackpot outs with the aces full rule. I need A5 in my hand to make it even possible, with the case ace falling on the board.

I'm sorry, I'm not real familiar with bad beat jackpots, do all four cards from both players have to play?

In HE, both cards from the hand of each player must play against three cards on the board to be eligible. Meaning, 55577 board would need 85 or better for my kicker to play.

I won't defend his play too much. Just busting out an all-in on that flop is pretty bad, for sure. On the other hand, he was put in a very tough spot. He was certainly going to lose some more money on that hand. It's possible that in that particular hand, with those particular players, etc. that he might have been able to not lose too much.

But in general, if you have AA and the flop is middle-and-paired it's too weak if your general policy is to always fold to any aggression. What if you had JJ or QQ or 99? If he bets half the pot, no matter what you do, he's in a tough spot.

As for making comments -- doing so is fine if you understand the consequences. The only bad one in that situation (besides the longshot of him physically attacking you) is it raises your profile a bit.

But I'm done commenting on the hand -- that was a monster!

My only justification is that he knew anything short of an all-in bet would most likely not chash our any straigt or flush draws.

His thinking probably was, I know even if I don't give these donkeys the correct odds, they'll chase their flushes.

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The Biggest Bet I've Ever Called: $452

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so the deck hit you

Re: so the deck hit you

Ooops, no jackpot possible

Re: Ooops, no jackpot possible

Re: Ooops, no jackpot possible

Re: so the deck hit you

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